Rocket Ninja’ Shr3d Engine Provides Boost in Social Gaming 3D Arms Race
Yesterday, we got our first look at a 3D social game engine that streams through Flash without the use of a plugin or download from developer Rocket Ninja in the game Wrestler: Unstoppable. The developer’s proprietary engine, Shr3d, marks another effort by developers to push the web technology that makes more sophisticated games possible.
When 3D first came to console video games, it changed both the way that players interacted with the games and the way the video games industry judged progress. An arms race emerged where the three largest console developers — Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft — spent the majority of their development budgets on creating bigger, better 3D experiences. This created an environment where game designers focused on crafting games that showcased the technology, effectively changing the types of games players had access to.
So far, the social games industry has been immune to the 3D arms race, instead focusing on an art quality arms race where developers looked for ways to create vivid, distinctive visuals that ran smoothly on Flash. We’ve seen developers explore ways to create these experiences through hiring highly specialized artists, experimenting with data storage options for art assets on client computers, and also with plugins that provide games with additional functionality like Microsoft Silverlight. Now, with Rocket Ninja’s new engine, we begin to see where the 3D arms race could make its way into social games as Shr3d creates a 3D experience without the use of plugins.
ISG interviews Rocket Ninja CEO Oded Pelled, CTO Randy Fish, and Executive Producer Neil Haldar on the implementation of Shr3d and what 3D means for the social games industry.
Inside Social Games: Wrestler: Unstoppable was originally a 2D fighting game experience. How did you introduce the existing player base to 3D without overwhelming them?
Oded Pelled: When we launched [Shr3d] on Cinco de Mayo, the game was in 3D for all users. The game by default [now] appears in 3D for all users. [The upcoming] sound features will only be for 3D, and in the next month, there’s not going to be a 2D option. There’s going to be 3D animation with sounds, or there’s going to be basically [a mode] with animations turned off.
ISG: Did you experience any early performance issues by introducing 3D into the game?
Pelled: The unique thing about Shr3d is that it works with Flash version 10 and it works with low performing machines, so we’re very pleased to [report] that we don’t get complaints about performance issues. So far.
Randy Fish: The animations are pretty small. I think most of the size of the download is actually in some of the models, in the texturing. And in the background in the arenas. I’m not sure what the total size is of an actual character, but we have a pre-loader, so by the time the match starts, you’ve got all the assets you need. The characters themselves are very small. Right now we’re relying very heavily on the browser’s caching mechanisms and that’s been working very well. Our Flash engineer worked on Shr3d almost almost completely with a four-year-old laptop that’s basically a netbook just to make sure that we’re addressing [possible performance issues].
ISG: Now that you can render everything from animations to actual items in 3D, will you add more premium decoration features as a revenue stream?
Pelled: We haven’t yet. We have 10 new [arena] venues coming in the next few months. Some of them are very, very cool. There are more venues in different locations and obviously a person will have to buy them.
ISG: A lot of social game developers are beginning to think of 3D as an arms race. What is your attitude toward the rise of 3D in social games?
Pelled: We believe that Shr3d is giving us a competitive advantage because we’re not counting on people downloading any plugin or software, like Unity, which no doubt offers significantly higher capabilities. But how many people download the client, the plugin? You’re talking about less than 1% of Facebook users. So in that race, we’re not talking about the future, [we're talking about the present]. We’re out there with the game and it’s in 3D and it looks very impressive. And it works on low-performing machines.
So there are going to be more [developers] coming in. We believe that a lot of them will require plugins and software. That’s going to be a challenge, especially when you’re talking about a social platform with a relatively short attention span. People need to get a game — maybe from a viral share — and instantly start to play. Not [be asked] to start a download or go to this, install this.
Neil Haldar: To add onto that, I would say that a lot of developers get caught up in 3D for 3D’s sake. I think I can envison an arms race where developers are trying to build lots of stuff in 3D. More than they need to. I think the philosophy that we took with the acceleration of Wrestler has been very specific. We haven’t built the whole thing in Flash; we’ve used a lot of HTML so that it renders really clear on a low-end machine. And we remain most compatible with older machines. I think that’s the probably the right way to allow us to scale with our own technology. It doesn’t require a download.
Fish: I think from the ground up we focused on lower polygon models. In doing so, we allow the download sizes to be much smaller. So basically it’s not going to look console quality, but the time to get started is much quicker. It looks pretty good. But the emphasis was on getting people [into the game]. You don’t download a 250 megs of assets in order to get started. Or a gig. Or World of Warcraft.
ISG: Is Shr3d something Rocket Ninja would consider licensing to other social game developers for their own games?
Pelled: Right now, that’s not part of our strategy. [Shr3d] is definitely a big competitive advantage. Part of our strategy [is to be] an accelerator. The more games we come to an agreement with a developer on, [the more we'd use the engine]. Mostly likely, we would buy [the game], or reach some kind of business terms [with the developer] so that they can benefit from [our] proprietary technology. It’s case-by-case scenario. In this specific case of Wrestler, we bought the game and we actually even had the developers join the company, so it’s a full acquisition.
[Editor's Note: What Pelled means here is that Rocket Ninja is not interested in handing over the engine to other developers to experiment with, much the way that Epic Games does with its Unreal game engine in the console and PC video game space. Rather, he's talking about a case-by-case agreement process where Rocket Ninja would acquire or partially acquire a single game at a time to give it the acceleration treatment with the Shr3d engine the way it did for Wrestler. So far, Rocket Ninja has not announced plans to acquire any other new games.]
ISG: Just before Rocket Ninja bought Wrestler, the company announced a $3.5 million round of investment. How much of this funding went into development on Shr3d versus what Rocket Ninja spent on marketing the game?
Pelled: So far, we’ve barely even started marketing. We bought the game in December. We really started work on it in January. The last four months have been devoted to the acceleration part, which is broken into making the game 3D, introducing new mechanics, introducing new virality components [...] And two three weeks from now, we’re going to open the floodgates and start to expand [marketing]. So far, not even 20% [of the funding] went to marketing.
May 24th, 2011 at 11:49 am
you should check out yogurt’s virtual world yogurtistan ( apps.facebook.com/yogurtistan ) on facebook. it’s also flash based 3d and their tech beta is live for a long time.
May 24th, 2011 at 2:02 pm
PushButton Labs engine (Gardens of Time, ESPN-U, City of Wonder, Social City) now seems to have a similar 3D component, they put a video up in March showcasing some of the 3D stuff:
http://pushbuttonlabs.com/technology/pushbutton-engine/
May 24th, 2011 at 4:10 pm
math, did you notice how long that took to load, though? Seemed like at least a minute, which could definitely hurt them, though it does look nice…
May 24th, 2011 at 5:26 pm
Retention most likely improved due to their feed improvements mentioned in the article, probably not the 3D, esp in an elder game
May 24th, 2011 at 6:27 pm
I am a long-time user of the Wrestler: Unstoppable app on facebook. The general concensus is that, although it looks pretty to have the fights in 3D, they run too slowly and most people have reverted back to the 2D option now that the novelty of seeing their wrestlers perform in 3D has worn off!
May 24th, 2011 at 6:41 pm
Yea I am an avid player of this game.. used the 3d mode for all of 10 minutes.. runs real slow.. load times are awful.. and my machine while not the most current is capable of running second life smoothly.. The 3d mode is awful..
May 24th, 2011 at 6:53 pm
Well thxs for ruining a very good game then, as the 3D sucks and takes way to long when you have 100+ matches to get through. I will be leaving the app, and so will many many others, as they hate it, and thxs for actually giving us something we have wanted or asked for for a damn year now. You have ruined what was once an awesome game. Guess I will take my money, and spend it elsewhere.
May 24th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
Loved the game from day one. Will be leaving the first day 2D is no longer an option.
May 24th, 2011 at 8:21 pm
LOVE the game, but I too will be gone if 2D is not a choice. I have NO interest in seeing/playing a cartoon version of the matches….
May 24th, 2011 at 8:36 pm
Removing 2D mode will be a BAD move…it takes TOO long to play through 50 matches…and I have to wait for the game menu to pop up to make the NEXT move! Very FOOLISH move.
May 24th, 2011 at 8:43 pm
May I ask what the logic is of removing the 2D option? Is it taking up space? Is it making the slow 3D rendering even slower? As I understand programming, it is usually more difficult to remove an option than it is to add more options. So, I guess my real question is, why spend the money to remove when that money could be spent on improvements?
Theno
May 24th, 2011 at 9:02 pm
Playing the game in 3D takes way too long. If you are an active player (I count myself as a moderate player) you’d have to spend a couple of hours just to get through your matches. As is, in 2D, it takes me about half an hour to get through the 30+ matches I come home to every day. I can only imagine what more active wrestlers do. In 3D? Forget about it. It would turn into a second job, not a game.
May 24th, 2011 at 9:43 pm
I’m just waiting for them to remove the 2D options, which no matter what they may say, is coming. RN isn’t interested in players that don’t put money into the game. My guess is they feel that 3D will bring in newer players that will pay to play and leave their older and loyal players out in the rain without an umbrella, so to speak.
May 24th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
3D makes the game more fun and engaging. Sounds are missing but hopefully will come soon. As far as i can read, The 2D option will be removed but you will have a 3D option without animation which allows for a fast play. Well done Ninjas.
May 24th, 2011 at 10:05 pm
Just to clarify, RocketNinja will not be removing 2D version until we see the following:
- The pace of the match allows users to enjoy the same pace of matches that they do today in the 2D version…even for 50 or 100 matches
- A large majority of the users are no longer using the 2D version
We value the input from our user community, and we will not make such a drastic change on a whim. We do read all of the feedback, and it is factored into the decisions we make for the betterment of the game and the Wrestler: Unstoppable community. Keep the feedback coming; the more constructive, the better.
May 24th, 2011 at 11:50 pm
In reply to your post there, I would like to know where you are getting your info, as the majority of users are NOT using the 3D option, as it sucks. The animations are slow, the wrestlers are blocky and ugly, and it is a massive waste of time.
May 24th, 2011 at 11:59 pm
Like so many have mentioned..3D is way too slow to be used in larger scale. I do however like the way it brought the wrestler to more LIFE. For men it worked quite nicely, but for women..They looked like Igor’s from Frankenstein mostly due to the wrestling stance just not working for them.
IF 2D goes off my main concern however is not the fighting the matches. I’m concerned of how slow it will make the GM work. Some GM’s go around checking matches results while scheduling BY HAND(due to no faster way other than round robin or tournament like 10-100 matches and if those matches were to be checked on 3D………I fear how long i would be sitting here, waiting for the results and banging my head to the wall. All i ask is that don’t forget the GM’s as even though the normal players that pop by for an week and then go buh-bye bring some bucks..It IS the owners of companies that throw in way much more.
Hopefully it will get sorted.
All the best
-Turo Falck/Mike Steel JR.(A long time user of wrestler since 2008)
May 25th, 2011 at 12:41 am
i am an avid player,i have anywhere from 70-200 matches a day.with the 3D the way it is now,which does not have sound,it runs way to slow.that is why nobody wants it.there are threads popping up on unstoppable that has 100′s of wrestlers saying that once the 2D is gone so are they,and a large number of those have spent and still do spend a fair amount of money on this app now.i will also be joining them in leaving.we came to this app for the fun it is and making a lot of new friends.and like many i have spoke with said if they wanted the 3D they like many others would be playing Play Stations or Xbox’s,something this app does not even compare to.right now i have an old computer which takes 3-5 minutes to load each 3D match,then after making a move it takes a couple more,just to do one complete turn and set defence it takes nearly 15 minutes…to do 100 matches it would take me nearly 25 hours.i’m not saying don’t do all the 3D,but at least leave the 2D option,that way you will not lose anyone plus gain the new ones who want to come for the 3D.plus look at all the money you wouldn’t end up losing from people leaving
May 25th, 2011 at 12:56 am
@brad i think they host it in europe, as far as I know. when they open up US servers, i think the speed problem will be partially solved…
hey say that this is a tech beta using their current software renderer yogurt3d. and they are developing molehill version of their engine.
May 25th, 2011 at 3:56 am
Mr. Fish, no disrespect meant, but if you really “respected” the user community and what they wanted then where are tag teams?
And why does RN NEVER let us know before they make upgrades, forcing us off the app without us know ANYTHING about what’s going on?
“Just to clarify, RocketNinja will not be removing 2D version UNTIL we see the following:”
UNTIL implies that it is going to happen eventually.
My other question is why do you continue to ignore the old loyal fan base that FBW and Unstoppable have? Why do updates no one asked for and never fix the stuff we have asked for?
Why is it the only things that seem to actually get fixed have to deal with Wrestler Bucks and everything else is just put on the back burner?
May 25th, 2011 at 4:06 am
Mr. Fish, just in case I am wrong and you are willing to see what people think about 3D, here is a thread telling how 2D will eventually be taken out. You’ll see there are fans of the idea and a lot of others that are either going to drop matches or quit the app all together.
http://apps.facebook.com/unstoppable/Storylines!view.fb?id=LSC90023b8e460f4d2083655bde067f1c03
I know that the ones who want to keep 2D mainly because of speed are pretty much going to be screwed out of that option, but I thought maybe, for once, you and the other RN’s might actually look at it since you pretty much said you wanted feed back.
I won’t be holding my breath though.
May 25th, 2011 at 4:36 am
I have tried several times to play in 3d….and everytime I switch it back to 2d. I will say that if the change is made 3d and the speed is not fixed that I will also leave this game that I have grown to love and spent actually money playing to make a large/fast growing company on the game. I understand that they want to jump into the 3d world and be an innovator, but there are so many things that people have been asking for in the game….and quite honestly this isn’t one of them.
May 25th, 2011 at 5:02 am
Watching moves in 3D is fun, but the characters look ugly. I think removing the 2D option is a big mistake. Even 3D without animations would still take too long to load the initial match and I can see a lot of people quitting. This would also make things difficult for GMs with a slow internet connection.
May 25th, 2011 at 5:37 am
Ninja’s, i presume the post above me is by one.
My advice if you want more people to accept 3d if we are to believe your post above is simple.
At the moment, 3d makes your wrestler looks like he has downs syndrome. Im not being mean for the sake of it. Its true. They look, AWFUL.
On top of that, with SO FEW costume pieces available, the only way we can currently look unique is by combining pieces. 3D doesnt accomodate this very well, if it all. Case in point, 2 hairtyles mixed. Boots with comat trousers. Mask over another mask.
Body sizes. They are ALL IDENTICAL. If im 7ft, i should look 7ft. If i’ve choson the small athletic build, WHY THE HELL do i look the same as the giant build? With a MASSIVE hunch back.
What you guys fail to realise is that on MMO’s (i class fb games as this), one of the key things, if not the most important is character originality/coolness. Everyone wants a unique awesome character.
Your game currently fails MASSIVELY on this. If you have 3d mode that runs identical to the current 2d one, great, if you can manage to NOT MAKE US LOOK RETARDED.
May 25th, 2011 at 8:33 am
3d in this game is slow…and the players have posted on the RN Forum on this issue. The players continue to ask for upgrades on certain things and have had no luck. Then we say we don’t like 3d and they continue to push it anyway. I think that RN should pay more attention to the players who are spending their money on the game the way it is…instead of using the money spent to move the game to 3d which a majority of the players DO NOT WANT…but not surprised one bit that they do not care about what the players want. Players have posted repeatedly on this issue with no result. Players have requested for a long time that they want tag teams added, but instead it is 3d. I know I will no longer spend any of my own money on this game, and when they do away with 3d and loose hundreds of players maybe they will finally realize what they are doing…but than again probably not as they will just spend money advertising and attracting new people to spend there money.
May 25th, 2011 at 10:29 am
i have played for quite a few years,shortly after the first version.i stuck by it when it switched to this version instead of going to the other one.saying that if the 2D goes i will be leaving with it.right now it’s 3D with no sounds and it runs like crap.i guess to RN it’s ok to not care what the masses say,or the ones that stuck by this app.if i was here for the graphics,lets face it i wouldn’t be here now.i myself have found something more than just playing this game.i met my gf on here and have made a lot of friends that chances are will never meet but some are the best friends i’ll ever have.i have played this for 6-8 years and going to hate leaving,but it looks like Rocket Ninja could dare less what the fans of this app thinks….just try to sucker more new ones in that will stay til they to realize that it’s all about getting more new to play,the ones there don’t matter apparently.
May 25th, 2011 at 1:46 pm
Now I may not have played as long as most of these others here but i would have to agree with them; in the fact RN doesn’t care what anyone wants. If they did they would see that they have been going in the wrong direction. as posted here by the people:
http://apps.facebook.com/unstoppable/Storylines!view.fb?id=LSC78894180d2594700bea63b2ef93e3ea0
Now with all of us leaving, how much more do you think have when everyone puts out on FB that this game is not worth the time to even open the App.
May 25th, 2011 at 3:02 pm
This whole this is total bs and everyone in the game knows it! For RN to say there has been no complaints about the 3d is beyond a simple mistake, its an out right lie! What more can you expect from a company that refuses to listen to its users? Most people on this game were ok with the 2d game play. It is more about the community of wrestling fans than it is the graphics. But lets talk about this new 3d system. First off its slow slow slow. Also whats what the cheese 1960′s batman style BOOM POW nonsense popping on the screen? Does anyone really want 3D on a turn based game?
Honestly I dont think that 3D is the issue with this game. The issue is that Rocket Ninja doesnt care to listen to one thing that the people whole are playing the game ask for. Way before 3D we asked for tag team play to give it more of a true wrestling game feel. Even NES wrestling games had tag team play, but good old Rocket Ninja doesn’t think we need it I guess. How long have we been asking for an expanded move list? For those of us who play this game several hours a day, it would be nice to have a few new moves.The list of unanswered request is endless.
It becomes clear that they do not care about this game at all. They are using us as test subjects to work out the kinks in this new 3d system. As soon as its fixed, they will take that same system and apply it to a new, more main stream game, like a war game. Why do they abuse us fans like this? I know people who spend large sums of money every week on this game, and many more that spend at least ten to twenty a week playing. Now this doesnt sound like much but when its hundreds of people spending like that every week it adds up. Wrestling fans are loyal to a fault. We let promoters cram sorry shows down our throat but still we buy the shirts and dvds. Still we make wrestling the highest rated show on cable tv each and every week. Still RN could care less about us, it looks like there isn’t one single fan helping make this game.
If ANYONE would start another game like this, even without 3d, but would just give the fans what they want, I would be the first one to leave this and go where a gamer matters.
The only person I feel bad for at RN is the CTO Mr. Fish. He is stuck making what the CEO and Producer tell him to. He and the team have done a good job breaking ground on a whole new way to play social media games, but a lot of the blame and complaints fall on him. Mr. Fish I hope you get some of the money when your CEO sales this system you have come up with, to farmville. Mr. Fish would you please fix the fail rate, thats the only issue where I think the tech guys are failing. Everything else isn’t your call, it falls on the shoulders of Pelled.
May 26th, 2011 at 11:57 am
This is a lie. We have complained about 3d. I for one will not play the game anymore. I have spent LOTS of money on this game and I’m done. ROCKET NINJA YOU ARE LIARS AND HAVE NO INTEGRITY. If you people want to waste money on a company with no honor go ahead, but I for one and done. RN when you stop lying my bank roll and I may consider coming back, but until then I’ll play my Xbox.
July 29th, 2011 at 11:12 pm
I have spent about 300 bucks on this game while in 2D mode. And Of course Rocket Ninja is on here lying about no complaints about 3D in fact the entire app has been bombarded by the “loyal” fans hating the 3D engine. All of us who have spent actual money to play the game will now be FORCED into playing 3D if we want to enjoy it further with no other options in site. Here is a link to a ton of wrestlers who did a survey. As you can see those who spent real money on the 2D brand are now ignored as most of them (99.5 percent) never want to or never do use 3D
http://apps.facebook.com/unstoppable/Storylines!view.fb?id=LSC6048fa852fd4467a9b37a8f41903f3d2
More complaints here
http://apps.facebook.com/unstoppable/Storylines!view.fb?id=LSC78894180d2594700bea63b2ef93e3ea0
and more here
http://forums.rocketninja.com/showthread.php?1485-Tag-Teams&p=9168#post9168
Even complaints in forums by new users have stated they like 3D but even if they do their PCS are not fast enough. I also enjoyed this article from a technology site http://vator.tv/news/2010-11-04-rocket-ninjas-35m-bringing-3d-to-facebook
Stating that exact issue which rocket ninja ignores
Speaking of hurdles the company will have to face, a 3-D game will also face a user-adoption hump, since in order to get the full effect of the game, most users will have to upgrade their system. Since a 3-D graphics card setup, like the NVIDIA 3D Vision bundle, can cost users roughly $600, the real merits of a 3-D game are likely to be appreciated only by hardcore PC gamers and HD movie buffs, for the time being. All those polygons, used to render the three dimensional characters, are of no use to you if your system can’t display them.
They dont care if you dont have the money to upgrade your pc or if it doesnt run on an ipad or smart phone or iphone…you either fit the demographic they are gearing towards OR you dont play tag teams.
The entire loyal community is outraged and they really dont care.
July 29th, 2011 at 11:27 pm
The best thing is Rocket Ninja mastered the bait and switch. They gave us the heads up saying tag teams are on the way and never told us 3D only UNTIL after the roll out. Good old bait and switch. Seems like a bunch of programmers got together got a company loan an started a company because it seems none of them have business sense at all. I also think we are just guinea pics to work out the Sh3rd kinks and then the game will die. It’s sad I have been with wrestler for over 3 yrs now and ninjas are going to kill it.
I as basically told to love it or leave it. AND I told the ninjas how nobody wants it they said check back in 30 days and people will…and the thing is the only reason they will is because they are forced too. Like a dictatorship. Thanks “Fidel Castro” for ruining our game
March 30th, 2012 at 10:07 am
[...] now sit at 40,000 MAU and 8,000 DAU, respectively. The game didn’t exactly kick off a “3D arms race” on Facebook like Rocket Ninja hoped, and the developer decided to change [...]